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get a free line of unlimited intro for a year when you buy one unlimited line. visit xfinitymobile.com today to learn more. today, the former special counselor who investigated president biden's mishandling of documents, a man by the name of robert hur, was grilled on capitol hill. the former counsel has already declined to charge president biden with anything, concluding that nothing he did was worthy of prosecution. but that did not stop republicans in congress from making a four hour circus out of mr. hur's testimony today. that is because today's hearing wasn't actually a matter of law. it was about scoring political points. the reality here is that the only reason joe biden accidentally taking some classified documents when he left office, the only reason that matters at all is because donald trump willfully,

purposefully, took classified documents with him when he left office and then tried to obstruct justice to cover it all up. these two cases are not the same. but don't just take my word for it. here is former special counsel hur, reading from his very own report on the matter . >> unlike the evidence involving mr. biden, the allegations set forth in the indictment of mr. trump, if proven, would prevent serious aggravating facts. >> keep going. >> i am happy to have you read the words. >> it is your report, so i think it is more fitting that you read it. >> most notably, after being given multiple chances to return classified documents and avoid prosecution, mr. trump allegedly did the opposite. >> keep going. >> according to the indictment, he not only refused to return these documents but he also it obstructed justice by enlisting others to destroy evidence. >> we will get into hur's

apparent reluctance there to read aloud the negative parts about donald trump, even if they were words he wrote. but congressman madeline dean, in exchange, forced mr. hur to highlight the most important conclusion in this whole thing. in one case, biden seems to have made a legitimate mistake, followed by full cooperation from law enforcement. in the other, trump's. you have what appears to be criminal intent and obstruction of justice. and, as if to underscore the chasm that separates these cases, yesterday, we got even more evidence of just how intentionally criminal donald trump's actions appear to be. on monday, one of the witnesses in this classified documents investigation, one of the witnesses came forward and up until yesterday, we knew this witness only as trump employee five. cnn is now reporting that his name is brian butler. he was a longtime employee at mar-a-lago and he witnessed some incrediblythings, like the

day that trump flew from florida to bedminster, new jersey. he and his co-defendant asked mr. butler to get mr. nauta a big suv and escalate. butler son nauta and trumps other co-defendant load the vehicle up with 10 to 15 bankers boxes and then drive them to trump's plane and then load those boxes onto the plane. mr. butler said that all took place on june 3, 2022. now, later that same day, one of trump's lawyers provided investigators with what he said was the entirety of classified documents that remained in mr. trump's possession, as well as a sworn certification that falsely claimed on trump's behalf that he and team trump had conducted a diligent search of boxes and all responsive documents had been turned over. so what brian butler is now

asserting here is pretty explosive. not only did trump apparently hideaway at least 105 classified documents that the fbi eventually found, it sure sounds like trump managed to steal another 10 to 15 boxes of records, and we don't know if the fbi ever got those records back. who knows where those boxes are now? that sure sounds like obstruction of justice. what is equally concerning here is why brian butler decided to go public right now. there he was, explaining his decision. >> well, i mean, it has been almost a year since fbi agents showed up at my house when my wife was at home. and, you know, over the course of the last year, emotionally, it has been a roller coaster. a couple of weeks ago, the judge said she was going to release the evidence to the witnesses. you go from highs and lows in this, and instead of just waiting for it to come out,

whatever they say happened, it coming out in the news, i would rather just get it out there. the hope is at least i can move on with my life. and get over this. >> brian butler coming forward here is brief. president trump has a track record of trying to influence or intimidate witnesses who speak out against him. and his followers have a track record of harassing and threatening anyone they perceive to be one of donald trump's enemies. so coming out in this bit public way is, in and of itself, a big deal. as the months go on, the list of trumps transgressions if not a list of his actual crimes, those list continue to grow. and yet, for now, the mar-a-lago case is on hold. instead of talking about a child, in congress, the focus is instead on president biden, and not just how he handled

classified documents, which, as a legal matter, is already settled. instead, the focus is on biden's age and wetter he is fit to be president. the former counsel himself played a huge role in that. he reports broad and seemingly unusual characterizations about biden's age. and now one of the people, one of the congresspeople who questioned hur today was congressman adam schiff . remember, before becoming a congressman, shift spent years at the attorney at the district of california, meaning he is a stranger to how a prosecution, he is no stranger to how a prosecution like this should be run. he knows the rules and he does not think the former special counsel has followed them. >> politics played no part whatsoever in my investigative steps. >> mr. hur, you cannot tell me you are so naove as to think your words would not have created a political issue. you understood that.

you understood how they would be manipulated by my colleagues here on the gop side of the alley president trump. you understood that. >> what i understood is the regulations that govern my conduct as special counsel. a confidential report for the attorney general. >> which you knew -- >> follow the rules -- >> and what is in the rules, mr. hur? you don't do things to prejudice this subject and investigation when you are declining to prosecute. you don't fortuitously add language that you know will be useful in a political campaign. you were not born yesterday. you made a choice that was a political choice. it was the wrong choice. mr. chairman, i yield back. >> joining me now is congressman adam schiff of california, a member of the house judiciary committee and former lead house impeachment manager during the first senate impeachment trial. it is great to see you.

i think you made an impact, shall we say, in your assessment of the former special counsel. what was your assessment after you asked him whether or not he believed this was not a political document? or that he did not make any political considerations when assessing president biden's memory? did you believe him? >> no. i didn't believe him at all. he tried to claim that this was a confidential memo, but he knew it would be made public. the attorney general made it clear it would be made public. and the idea that he was required to give this personalized prejudicial biased , essentially broadside against the president that it was necessary to his report, is absurd. he could have commented all he wanted on the president's recollection as to this or that document. that would have been appropriate. but he understands having done

dozens and dozens of depositions. witnesses are instructed if they don't remember something clearly, they should say they don't recall. there is nothing unusual about that. to take this political potshot at the president during the midst of a campaign when he knows how it will be used, this was a great abuse of prosecutorial authority and he knows it. >> i also feel like he wanted to issue up backhanded not quite indictment of the president. he got into a big back and forth with the congressman over whether or not the president was exonerated by his report. he said, i did not exonerate him. why, if he wasn't going to charge him, do you think he said this? >> well, i think he saw in the clip you played, his reluctance to even read portions of the report that were critical of donald trump. my sense was what he decided to do was lacking the evidence to make a recommendation to charge

the president, he would do the next best thing, which is give them a political bludgeon. attack the president's memory. paint an unflattering portrait of him. that, in many ways, was more damaging than any observation he might have made about the facts or the chargeability of those facts. so i think he has a tough time criticizing trump. he may have future political ambitions. he doesn't want to alienate somebody who might be president. he doesn't want to alienate the republican party. so i think his effort is to fail to find fax to charge or recommend charges to gratify the trump crowd. >> what do you make of the fundamental issue on display here? the fundamental conclusion that i think is worth repeating over and over again. the vast, vast gulf that separates what president biden did versus what former president trump did on the matter of classified document retention.

do you think democrats made a forceful enough distinction, as it were, given all the republicans had stored up, the political bludgeon as you mentioned, to try to impugn president biden's reputation, age, and fitness for office? >> i think yes. i think madeline did a great job. ted also went through and idolized a number of the charges with this against donald trump and concealing materials to try to get people to lie about it. talking about scrubbing the server that had the surveillance footage on it. in all of these respects, just night and day with president biden's, not deliberate effort, to retain documents with his documents, his lengthy interviews, it was a sharp contrast. i think democrats made that contrast. i also think it became clear watching her respond to questions that this is not some neutral objective, nonpartisan

prosecutor. this is someone who was a republican appointee. who really found it difficult, even though, as you say, it was his own words, to read from his report when it would be critical of donald trump. so i think the public got a sense of who he is, where he is coming from. >> independent of what republican and former special counsel have to say about it, i wonder what impact the latest developments will have with the american public as we head into an election season, where we may not get any of the federal criminal trials. they may not happen before the election. we have a witness coming forth and saying not only did donald trump retain over 100 classified documents at his residence, he may have actually stolen 10 to 15 bankers boxes more and sent them to points north or whatever. do you think that has the impact that it necessarily should, or do you think that

there has been some false equivalence made between and taking things, regardless of the fact that it wasn't criminal , and what trump did? do you think that the transgressions of that case have lost their impact in the court of public opinion? >> i don't think they have lost their impact. but as the indictments were sometime ago, i think it was valuable to remind people of these egregious facts. i think of mr. butler coming forward, particularly as the child doesn't look like it is going to go forward before the election, to say, the president was involved in hiding these classified materials. i was asked in a strange, suspicious way to load or help load these boxes of documents on the same day. it turns out we are meeting with the justice department to go over these classified materials. and i thought mr. butler was

having this billionaire foreign person talking about russian and other submarine capabilities , the astonishment that the president would talk to some wealthy donor or patron at mar- a-lago. this shows you what a security risk that whole mar-a- lago enterprise was. donald trump's willingness to show photographs of things to different parties, classified materials. it's terrifying to think of him getting those briefings now. i really hope the agencies dumb it down so they don't share anything with the president that they don't want to share with the world. >> the only material that is published in the washington post. he probably won't read either. congressman adam schiff thank you for making the time. i

really appreciate it. >> thank you. we have a lot to get to this evening, including what a doctored photo of the royal family means for american politics. plus, a presidential spoiler. rfk jr. announced that his short writ list for running me includes a very prominent anti- baxter. what that could mean for november coming up. pregnant... that's a different story. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up. people were showing up left and right. and so did our business needs the chase ink card made it easy. when you go for something big like this, your kids see that. and they believe they can do the same. earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase with the chase ink business unlimited card. make more of what's yours. this is remington. ...he's a member of the family, for sure. we always fed them kibble— it just seemed like the thing to do.

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counsel jack smith's team and is listed as trump employee number five. while nbc news has not independently confirmed mr. butler's role here, the fact that he has come forward now is telling. any day now, the judge in this case, eileen cannon, may release the identities of unnamed potential witnesses, like witness number five, which puts at least a dozen others like mr. butler at risk. judge cannon has yet to rule on whether she will release the names of those witnesses for the prosecution. she held a hearing 11 days ago on the matter. as far as that trial date, that is still very much tbd. joining me now to discuss all of this is msn legal, leslie ansley. to explain the continued confusion about exactly what is happening. >> right. first of all. >> and other legal scholars. >> yes. >> what is cannon going to do here? this seems like a very bad call

on its face, especially for those that, the president has a history of maligning. >> it was really interesting. i was reading the transcript of the argument you were talking about, and he clearly still has an issue with revealing their names. she asked dean harbaugh of the special counsel's office, has there been any indication that any of these witnesses have been threatened? and his response was sort of incredulous, but then he said to her, that is not the standard. we don't have to show that a witness has been threatened in order to make a credible case to you that the revelation of their names would compromise the investigation as well as the public safety. >> do you feel like if she says no, jack smith takes this to the 11th circuit? >> i do, because it is not just about brian butler as trump employee number five, who unveiled himself willingly. there are 20 to 25 other

witnesses according to harbaugh's estimation that could be impacted and it is not just their identities. i want to be clear. it is not the substance of their expected testimony as well. there could also be communications between members of the prosecution team, between and among them, about some of these witnesses. some of them are incidental. let's say they are talking about lisa rubin, a witness, and lower in the chain, they talk about alex wagner. you could end up having alex wagner's name in the public domain even though it is entirely incidental to the purpose for which that exhibit was used in these underlying notions. that is the subject of this order. the mac i do wonder, when we talk about these explosive elements of the interview with mr. butler, i was shocked at his account of helping to load 10 to 15 bankers boxes. if he said they looked very much like the boxes storing classified documents that we have seen photos of in the indictment document, that those 10 to 15 boxes were loaded onto

a plane and took off. to me, if i am the special counsel, first of all, they knew this months ago. why not continue looking for them? what does that reflect on the part of jack smith? >> we don't know that they haven't recovered them. they may have determined that all of those boxes were returned to mar-a-lago or somewhere else. they followed trump around wherever he went. i had a conversation with someone on your team tonight about our shared recollection that when trump showed up in new york last near for a deposition, he was seen outside trump tower with personal aides carting some of those very same sorts of banker's boxes. look. there is a reference in the indictment to the fact that carlos talavera and others shepherded boxes onto a plane as trump was leaving from florida to head north. it never disclosed however, that

ryan butler as trump employee number five was among them, and we don't know for sure what happened to those boxes or what was inside. he mac do you feel confident? in the back of my mind, this is all pure speculation. i should warn everyone at home. it seems that jack smith probably more than anyone else at the department of justice has understood the abbreviated calendar within which she is working. he built a federal indictment on january 6th that was made for speed. let's get it done. the mar-a-lago classified documents case seems very narrow, very clear. he didn't bother with a dissemination charge. with trump spreading state secrets, if you will. that seems intentional. i will go for the stuff i know i can connect on. >> you can still use evidence of some of the as proof of intent at trial even if they don't lead to separate charges. so jack smith, to your point, i think has adopted a surgical approach. he has probably also determines based on his team's experience with judge cannon so far that

further superseding this indictment is to no one's benefit. that doesn't mean if and when this case wherever to be tried that we wouldn't seen some of the things that brian butler talks about in the interview come back and make a reappearance in trial. >> i think there has been a fatalist attitude about this because it is unlikely to happen before november, but there is a 50% chance that joe biden is the president of the united states come the end of november, which means this trial could actually happen. i do wonder what you think the timeline might be for this, given cannon seems in decided to set a date. >> it depends on what the supreme court does. trump has made multiple motions to dismiss this case, two of which will be dealt with this week. presidential immunity is not one of them. depending on what the supreme court does, this case could go away or it could come back to judge cannon to determine, even if he is immune, for acts that

could be official, does the stuff in this indictment count as official, as worthy of immunity? i would tell you know. they are postpresidential acts. donald trump, however, because they emanate from his lawful possession during his presidency, he is entitled to cloak himself in the bathroom of immunity. >> so i am not going to ask you to actually answer that, but what is suggested here. lisa rubin, it is great to see you, my friend. thank you for bearing with my questions. still to come this evening, why a badly, badly photoshopped portrait of british royals has implications for american politics. we will explain, coming up. plus, trump and biden cross the crucial milestone tonight. that is about the only things there campaigns have in common though. strategies coming up next. long haired

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in a few hours, when all of the votes are tallied in the washington state primary, donald trump is set to become the republican presidential nominee. thanks to a primary win in georgia, joe biden is now the presumptive democratic nominee.

here we go, general election. president biden was not waiting to secure a certain number of delegates in order to shift the general election. he released this ad over the weekend taking on the age question had on. >> look, i am not a young guy. that is no secret. but here's the deal. i understand how to get things done for the american people. i let the country through the covid crisis. today, we have the strongest economy in the world. i've passed the draw about prescription drug prices capping at $35 a month for seniors. donald trump tried to pass an infrastructure lot and failed. i got it done. >> president biden is running on the stuff he's done. and donald trump? well, he is firing dozens of people at the republican national committee, including its republican director, as his campaign takes operational control of the organization. and he calls international

television programs to float ideas like this. >> have you changed your outlook on how to handle entitlement, social security, medicare, medicaid? the mac there is a lot you can do in terms of entitlement, in terms of cutting. >> he followed that up by announcing his first act as president will be to close the border, drill, baby, drill, and free the january 6 hostages. joining me now is tim miller, and claire mccaskill, former u.s. senator for the great state of missouri. thank you for being here with me tonight to understand what is happening. claire, let me first just ask you, you could talk about the infrastructure bill. you could talk about climate change. you could talk about lowering the cost -- protecting the social safety net, or you could talk about freeing the january 6 hostages. which strategy would you take, claire? >> i kind of like our side of the fence here.

i think biden has a stronger hand. by the way, let's not forget the fact that what donald trump mostly does is talk about how america sucks. he is constantly trying to convince everyone that we are terrible. that we are in decline. the america is awful. i don't think that is what most americans believe or want to hear. i think they want somebody who believes in the goodness of our country. somebody who sees that we are, in fact, in a stronger economic position than any of our other developed nations across the globe. we are doing better than we were under donald trump. and i actually think that even though there are still lots of days left before the election, i would much rather be joe biden at this point than donald trump did i think he does have the stronger hand. >> tim, we are told repeatedly, largely by trump, that the trump campaign is a well oiled machine.

better run and managed than it was in 2016. it was a low bar in 2016, admittedly, but they do have a lot of endorsements and an official campaign apparatus. having said that, the nationalization of this campaign and the fact that almost all of its appeal rests on the shoulders of donald trump. when he says things like cutting social security and medicare and talks glowingly about january 6 hostages, i wonder how much the campaign stuff and adeptness of his campaign really matters if he is saying that kind of stuff. >> yeah. i do think it is fair to say that they've got some professionals around them right now. it must be a little bit better than 2016 where he had several campaign managers and i think most of them were indicted at one point or another. including one who was kind of a russian spy, or at least back channeling to russia during the 2016 campaign. pretty global for improvement. i think that they have stepped over that, but there are a lot

of other things going against them that they didn't have in 2016. i know trump was indicted 91 times. he didn't have a track record to compare it against. this comparison was the best part because it addressed both accomplishments, but it also addresses the age contrasting away. like, this other old guy said he was going to do infrastructure every week and look who did it. i did. so i think having a marginally better campaign team, i don't know if that offsets all of the other challenges that donald trump faces this time. >> i agree with you, tim. claire, i wonder what you thought. when biden talked about this, you see a fumbling image of donald trump, which is actually totally different than what we have seen so far. we have seen him as pernicious, and a nefarious evildoer. but bumbling, fumbling, and ineffective is kind of a new bucket. i wonder how useful you think

that will be as biden tries to kind of claim this about the trump years. >> listen. all you have to do is take donald trump and some of these rallies. when he goes on to some of these sentences that aren't sentences and he talks gibberish and he doesn't know who he is running against and he is not identifying leaders with the right countries, and in the middle of it all, he loses his train of thought and goes sideways. he clearly has some cognitive issues. i think the best thing that has happened in the biden campaign is they figured out that they have to go after donald trump. they can't just sit in the oval office, be presidential, and talk about biden onyx and talk about what he has gotten done. they have to go after donald trump. they are doing that now, and donald trump is helping them by going on a show where he is trying to appeal to rich donors to cut social security and medicare.

these are mistakes that campaign operatives cannot fix. >> to that end, tim, your buddy, sarah longworth is the head of the republican accountability project. the reporting is that they are going to spend $50 million in a campaign effectively against trump. they do not consider themselves a pro biden shop, as i am sure you are well aware, but it is going to feature homemade videos of americans who voted for trump, i believe in the past, but have chosen not to in 2024. how effective do you think that will be in moving this critical slice of independence of voters to the left side of the aisle? how effective will that be? >> i think sarah is pro biden, and i think the strategy here is talking to people that might not want to get there around biden. i don't get that. it doesn't make sense to me. i think this is important. when you look at a strategy,

there will be a lot of democratic groups out there that are trying to activate young voters or other parts of the democratic coalition. this is a narrowly targeted effort to reach people that are pretty much republican voters or that voted for donald trump. not even never-trumper's. they are trump voters, but moving some of them from going to a trump motor to a nothing. that is a step in the right direction. moving them to joe biden is a full flip. that is what you are trying to do. in order to do that, these testimonials are then hearing from them. as much as we all like each other, hearing from these people, some of the voters for hillary, it will not be as competitive. someone who looks like them, who sounds like them, who voted for donald trump and now explaining for whatever reason whether it be his behavior or change of heart in the way he handled the economy or covid. they just can't get around this time and we have seen that that is a way to move some of this. it is a small number, one or two

percent, but it could be meaningful in this election. >> i am not going to impugn your reputation there. no one who voted for trump in 2020 is going to listen to me. i know what you're saying. claire, we have news tonight that robert f kennedy jr., the third-party candidate, will maybe be choosing jesse ventura, former minnesota governor, or the jets quarterback, aaron rodgers, a known anti-baxter, to be his running mate. does this matter at this stage in the game? does the continued sort of horniness of the kennedy candidacy have the potential to spoil this race? >> do not get me started on aaron rodgers. lsd in a dark room, the poor jets. here is the thing. we are going to have to, people

are going to have to spend a lot of money in this election. the vote for anyone, other than joe biden, is a vote for donald trump. and it is going to be expensive. people don't realize. they see the name. looking at all these calls, he does pull those from trump, but he pulls more points from biden. a lot of that is the name. i think the kennedy family will get involved. i believe they would because they think this is a horrible idea, but i have to tell you the truth. i don't think jesse ventura or aaron rodgers is going to help someone with the wacky ideas like robert f kennedy has. >> to that end, he was a guest of the first ladies at the state of the union. can we call her a matriarch? one of the most prominent kennedy family members. tim miller, claire mccaskill, thank you for joining me this evening. i really appreciate you.

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because they say it has been manipulated. >> if you look at princess charlotte sweater, you can see that the sweater is not fully there. >> right here, the skirt juts out and it doesn't make any sense. >> i believe this photo was taken in november of 2023, but they are not going to release a picture brand-new of them all in the same outfits from a publicized event so they tinkered it a little bit. >> it was literally, completely, generated in a fake way. >> by now, you have probably seen the photo that wants to thousand conspiracy theories. on sunday, the british royal family released this photo of the princess of wales, kate middleton, and her family, for british mother's day. immediately, people clocked several obvious signs that the photo had been digitally edited. major news agencies removed the image from their official databases because the image appeared to have been manipulated by the royal family. for conch -- contest here, she

has been absent from public life for about two months now. in january, the house announced she was undergoing abdominal surgery but did not give details on her diagnosis. the british public was already awash in conspiracy theories here, but in an attempt to kill the speculation, the royals admitted the photo they had released had been edited. the official account from insist we princess kate tweeted, like many amateur photographers, i do occasionally experiment with editing. i want to express my apologies for any confusion the photo caused. that only led to more questions. questions like, why was the princess of wales doing her own crappy photo edit? how did no one else in the palace catch this? maybe there is a totally legitimate explanation for all of this, but the global panic that this one photo has caused is something of real concern. the rise of disinformation and

misinformation. with advances in artificial intelligence have given rise to a new era of uncertainty, one that threatens to upend our own political system here in the united states. i mean, we have already seen real evidence of how deep fakes are interfering with the election. there was the fake robo call from joe biden, orphic joe biden, telling democratic voters to stay home in the state of new hampshire. and then there were images of donald trump, said surrounded by black supporters, generated by using ai. but the impact of any single deep fake is left concerning than the suspicion generated simply by living in the era of deep fakes. as one stanford ai researcher >> that the tech exists. and you can impugn the integrity of the stuff that is real. that is where the significant

danger lies. and it is already happening. we are witnessing the unraveling of shared reality. the royal photo debacle is merely a microcosm of our current moment where trust and governing organizations and gate keeping is low. this was exacerbated by the political lies of the trump era. we will look at what shared reality means for our future of the democracy.coming up in e next. of moderate-to-severe asthma that's not for sudden breathing problems. dupixent can cause allergic reactions that can be severe. get help right away if you have rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, tingling or numbness in your limbs. tell your doctor about new or worsening joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don't change or stop asthma medicines, including steroids, without talking to your doctor. ask your specialist about dupixent.

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wait a minute... are you kidding me? you got to be kidding me. rolling towards the cup, and it's in the hole! what an impossible shot brought to you by comcast business. is this real? that is the question millions of people had to ask themselves this week about this image. the british monarchy. as technology improves, people's ability to discern fact from fiction has worsened. the present scandal around the crown suggests that public trust once shaken can just

disappear entirely. in a new article for the alan tick, charlie calls this the end of shared reality. researchers and journalists have warned that deep fakes and generative ai tools may destroy any shared reality. that technology might become so good at conjuring synthetic media it becomes difficult for anyone to believe anything they didn't witness themselves. the royal portrait debacle demonstrates this area is not forthcoming, we are living in it. thanks for being here. i'm super eager to hear your thoughts on this. hear your not what is going on with kate middleton, but the impact of the seismic cultural internet event like this in terms of the broader question of public trust and how damaged you think it is even outside of the u.k. even here in america.

>> if you look at robo calls. the ai generated images of donald trump surrounded by african american voters, they have the short term impact of generating what the ai generated images and those manipulated elements of those things are actually doing so it has that benefit first of all. but, more insidiously, republicans get the added benefit of shaking our faith in the reality of everything. that we don't know what is real or fake or what joe biden said for example or donald trump said or what they didn't say. because once we lose faith in the system, once people lose faith in the system, they check out. that is what trump republicans want. but republicans want political space that feels so inaccessible and dirty and manipulated and broken that who would want to get involved?

and that cynicism that they are engendering here really correlates to republican's message of american carnage and fear and dysfunction. this is a coordinated strategy and it comes from the top down. you heard the expression the fish rots from the head. that's what we are seeing here. you heard the cry of fake news. this is the next prong in the strategy. anything trump and his supporters don't like something, they call it fake tv. the lincoln project came out with this ad. >> hey donald, we noticed something. more and more people are saying it. you're weak. you seem unsteady. you need help getting around. and wow. are you sure you don't have dementia? >> okay, so that's add ad from the lincoln project.

in response to it, trump says on truth social, the lincoln project and liberals are using ai in their fake television commercials to make me look as bad. this is the next, this feels like the next front. if you are presented with visual evidence that doesn't seem favorable to your candidate. i wonder how effective you think that could be broadly. >> i think it will be effective for the people who want to believe him. that's what he will do. everything is just as convenient as they want to make it. so in this case, if donald trump sees something that is his own words, if he wants to just write it off, he has that as an excuse as a fall back. he can claim it is an ai generated image. that is an admission that he has to claim what he said was fake. that is kind of the biggest tell of all. >> do you feel like there is a way to put the tooth paste back in the tube as it were?

can you rebuild public trust in the 21st century? i ask that not as a nigh nihalist but someone who wants to believe in journalistic integrity. >> it is the reason i think what you do is so important. what i try to do on a daily basis is so important. to arm people with accurate information. just having this segment here is a testament to that. it shows why it is so important and arms people with the knowledge this is happening. all you can do is just continuously pelt people with the truth over and over and over again. hopefully it has something of an impact. but like i said earlier, it will take a lot of digital media literacy we don't have as a society. >> sunlight and literacy. it is gate to see you. thanks for joining the show ni